Forums Splitboard Talk Forum SuperNatural? Not in my backcountry!
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  • #576632
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    Dear Mr, Travis Rice and Red Bull:

    Your envisioned Supernatural as an event “as a bridge, bringing all of snowboarding under one flag again”, I vociferously disagree with your vision, of bringing your “skate park” to my backcountry! The last thing I want to see in the backcountry is man-made kickers, made from mature trees! Especially when I travel to a remote backcountry lodge and drop some serious coin. Are your kickers still there?

    [youtube:2p3gysrt]zO09FC_ThFo[/youtube:2p3gysrt]

    Your sense of “natural” is on par with food advertisers defining “natural flavor”, but is not pure backcountry! It is a sham to call something natural in your and in their context. What happen to “Leave No Trace” ethos in the backcountry? Do you remember what the Lorax said:

    [youtube:2p3gysrt]5cXntJFWv5U[/youtube:2p3gysrt]

    or better yet:

    [youtube:2p3gysrt]EMOqKw1Z0f4 [/youtube:2p3gysrt]

    Seriously what you thinking? A cool jump and dollars in your pocket? Well the Supernatural contest is over; and if the platforms (kickers) are still there, then your scars on the landscape are there for all of us to see. What are you the “next-gen” Mountain Pine Bark Beatle?” see: http://tiny-themovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mt-pine-bark-beetle.jpg

    Perhaps you consider yourself an “artist”. Like Jeanne-Claude: Baccalauréat whose “ego” tries to “improve” on mother nature. Like Surrounded Islands http://www.christojeanneclaude.net/major_islands.shtml. IMO: a perversion of the landscape.

    and in 2015 Jeanne-Claude: Baccalauréat is going to cover 42 miles of the Arkansas River (in Colorado, near the Royal Gorge). See http://www.christojeanneclaude.net/prog_river.shtml.

    What next a rollercoaster or a tram? http://straightchuter.com/2012/02/wasatch-prepares-for-beheading

    I said it, was my Backcountry, Well I have the right to speak up, since I have been skiing in the backcountry, before you were a zygote, and have been riding and shredding while you still in diapers.

    To Redbull: I do not want to see a “SuperNatural” contest to expand to other regions; It is a mockery to call this “progress in snowboarding”.

    To my fellow Splitboarders: Sound-off as to whether you condone :thumbsup: or condemn :thumbsdown: a SuperNatural contest taking place in your backcountry!

    See http://www.usatoday.com/sports/action/story/2012-02-08/travis-rice-wins-supernatural-contest/53018710/1 for more details about the contest.

    Also see TR’s interview: [youtube:2p3gysrt]DAU5TcyEVxw[/youtube:2p3gysrt]

    #653714
    Killclimbz
    1165 Posts

    I do believe this contest took place on privately owned land by the operator. Land that in no way a day tourer was going to hit. I actually think it was pretty kewl, and don’t have much of a problem with it. Especially if they re use the set up, maybe modify it for next year.

    I will have a problem with it, say if they set up a course on Berthoud Pass, or in the Cottonwoods. Well maybe not the cotton woods if they can take over some of the land Talisker is proposing to put that stupid tram in the Wasatch. We know that ain’t going to happen though.

    Anyway, without watching all the videos. The first contest in Jackson did not have such modifications as this last contest. I dig what T-Rice is doing overall. If he keeps it to these remote locations, not much of a problem. If he tries to put one of these contests in a spot where Joe schmoe like me accesses, not so much.

    #653715
    Matt Wood
    328 Posts

    You must really hate Mtn. bikes in your backcountry. ^+1

    #653716
    802smuggler
    369 Posts

    I agree with the golden rule of leave no trace in the woods. I hope nobody goes out and attempts something like this in your local forest, it’s illegal! There are a lot of mountain bike features out in the woods too so I don’t see the difference. I guess my feeling is that these guys really got to showcase their not-from-this-planet abilities, so good for them. If this kind of riding, i.e. burton stash parks takes off, it just leaves more tracks in the true wilderness for the rest of us!

    But I agree that I’d be upset if people go out and start making state/fed. lands their own playgrounds. As much as I mountain bike, I think we have to be careful with that as well. People don’t want to hike through somebodies skate park.

    #653717
    shredgnar
    643 Posts

    Because he is the first guy to ever cut down trees and build something out of them in the woods. Next thing you know, people will be building houses and stuff out of them!

    This argument is ridiculous. I was building log rides in the backcountry ten years ago and guess what, it is fun.

    Pull the stick out of your ass! (pun intended) :mrgreen:

    #653718
    summersgone
    820 Posts

    @powder_rider wrote:

    What are you the “next-gen” Mountain Pine Bark Beatle?”

    Well you sparked any idea. There are millions of dead trees around waiting to become deadfall. I think cutting some down and making some fun terrain out of them would be AWESOME. Stacking pillows from dead logs, small tree jibs, etc would be fun. I personally would like to see stuff like this, but at a small impact, and on the dead trees. In the west, we don’t need to go nuts, but we do have a lot of dead trees that could be used to some extent.

    802, I’m sure you ride the notch, and I’m sure you realize that 99% of the stuff that is ridable there is due to thinning and brush cutting from people in the summer. And yes, they do cut trees. It is minimal impact if done right, and hardly noticeable in the summer.

    I think TRice should keep out if it. 99.9% of people couldn’t ride that stuff anyways. But I’d have no gripe if people did something useful with the dead trees in our backcountry, as long as it is low impact. Its been high avy danger all year, having something more fun to ride would be awesome.

    :twocents:

    #653719
    PedroDelfuego
    758 Posts

    This is “Uni-Bomber” talk. Sadly I totally agree with you. Now were both uni-bombers.

    I feel the need for some environmentalist anarchy coming on….

    1! 2! 3! 4! :band:

    #653720
    powslash
    382 Posts

    Incoherent rant. Missing a few key facts. Possibly a troll? Who knows. This is the final word on the subject:
    [vimeo:qkgrqxoh]http://www.vimeo.com/38405818[/vimeo:qkgrqxoh]

    summersgone, excellent idea stacking downed trees to make features. Slash piles. Double meaning.

    There is a parcel in one of my zones slated for harvest next summer. I can’t wait.

    #653721
    PedroDelfuego
    758 Posts

    Bring only friends… Leave only tracks… Take only photos…

    #653722
    russman
    689 Posts

    You know what, man, tough debate..

    I for the most part really dig the energy Travis brings to the industry, and the style of riding he represents.

    However, at the core I really am a wilderness freaken hippy who lives for the silence and spiritual wonder of the deep, deep woods and high alpine peaks.

    The Art of Flight was super rad to watch, but I really am pretty burned out on the overwhelming and obvious over-consumption of resources. Seeing a bunch of high alpine mature trees getting cut down (also note the tree cutting scene in That’s it That’s All) along with all the “heli-filming-heli-filming-rider” stuff kinda just leaves a weird taste in my mouth. I mean, I’ll reiterate that I’m a hippy with one view point, but for me part of backcountry and mountaineering is having a reverence for mother nature’s creations. Alpine timber takes many many decades to mature, so seeing it shamelessly sliced for the sake of one contest seems pretty lame! We need to believe that some things in this world are sacred…

    Anyway, Trice really is a super rad human being face to face.

    #653723
    powslash
    382 Posts

    ^ not just for the contest. Baldface just thinned a sweet run for customers to enjoy for years to come. The features will likely become firewood at the lodge or left in place as snag habitat. They’re lucky. Very few cat operations get to do that kind of thinning.

    #653724
    802smuggler
    369 Posts

    summersgone. You raise a good debate on trail blazing. Although most of our riding is done on cut trails I feel that organizations like the green mountain club do a great job at cutting/maintaining trails. When people cut there own trails we end up with problems like the mess on big jay a few years back. Jay peak closed access to big jay because of that. I’d be a liar if I said I always stay on state trails. But there is deffinetly a right way and a wrong way to cut as you said. Burton built a stash park at killington and it’s rad. I Just know I’d be bummed if we lost anymore of Mansfield to commercialized skiing/riding

    #653725
    fustercluck
    668 Posts

    I’m all for it. yeah, we should leave the mature trees alone, but dead or scraglly trees are fair game. Shit, every mountain range should have at least one SuperNatural course set up.

    #653726
    Rico in AZ
    559 Posts

    Canadiens, answer me this: Does a tenure permittee have the right to cut trees for something like SuperNatural?

    I doubt Rice/RedBull would be permitted to cut trees on National Forest land here in the States for SuperNatural. Or BLM for that matter (even if they are considered the Bureau of Lumber and Mining.) I could see something like this happening on any one a thousand mining claims in Colorado.

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned in life (via my job), it’s that if it’s private property, something will happen there sometime, whether you like it or not. Unless you buy that private property.

    #653727
    aliasptr
    282 Posts

    @ricorides wrote:

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned in life (via my job), it’s that if it’s private property, something will happen there sometime, whether you like it or not. Unless you buy that private property.

    It took me a long time to come to grips with this but not even private land is “safe”. There is always imminent domain and money- and lies and coercion and rumors and finally the community imploding. A great and famous example I am very familiar with is the Owens Valley of California.

    @russman wrote:

    We need to believe that some things in this world are sacred…

    You hit the nail on the head. At the core of all issues are values. You can’t always rationalize values or faith and that is the beauty and the frustration of being human.

    I like having and knowing that there are truly wild places in this world left. I like wilderness areas (as defined by my understanding of the Wilderness Act of ’64 in the US) because they have a certain feel.

    Sure there are trails that allow us to travel easily and signs sometimes but I accept that as part of the deal. It bums me out some when you see very heavily impacted areas but I learned how to pick my areas appropriately as I recreated more in the Sierra.

    Then there is USFS and BLM land. Fun to motorcycle, offroad, snowmobile etc. on. And also all the mining and timerbing that goes on is part of that deal usually.

    I am generally leaning more towards Russ’ side of being a hippie but there are so many contradictions, impracticalities and hypocrisies in living a “normal” life, let alone having fun splitting, while trying to truly be sustainable.

    In the end I try to worry about what happens most about what’s going on in my backyard literally and metaphorically.

    Do I think it’s cool to glorify slashing and burning forest and have that shit associated with all snowboarders? Nope but I don’t get to pick.

    All I can do really is be the change I want to see and try to rant in the most appropriate company, places and time.

    I’m still working on all of the above. :rock:

    #653728
    seeknpow
    87 Posts

    I’m still kinds pissed the FS burned all the piles in my backyard, early season it was gap to gap for a 1000ft.
    building hits outta wood that will biodegrade after a few years, and give light to the 2-3-4 growth stands of these trees, well go get some.

    #653729
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    Just to clarify:

    What I do not like about the Supernatural contest, is cutting of mature trees to make “natural” features! Then advertise this contest as a backcountry experience (either by Red Bull or by a mountain lodge).

    Will this media event, “give a stamp of approval” to every shredding Yahoo with chain saw to create log features from live trees? I have enough to be concern with backcountry risks (aka avalanche and group dynamics), I don’t need some log feature throw into the avalanche mix. For example: the ‘obit’ would say, “the snowboarder deploy his avalanche airbag and survived the avalanche, but was pummeled to death by cut logs in the avalanche debris”.

    Are not the best Kickers built on slope 30 degrees or greater?

    [BTW: Snow made Kickers, cool, just take them down when you leave the backcountry].

    Will the celluloid value of such a contest, dictate the need to expand this contest to other remote mountain lodges?, So that Red Bull has a fresh canvas to advertise their “natural flavor”? I enjoy both winter camping “Further-style” and the remote mountain lodge experience, and much of the effort (both by leg power and the hard earned “dinero”) is to see the view of pure backcountry. Not a bunch of link-n-logs on a slope after a contest is gone and scarred the landscape.

    For a snowcat operation: I be willing to concede a little, if the cutting of log features, was on private property, that the features were part of a master plan of thinning and maintaining trails, and the features came down in the same season. But I do not want a permanent skate park in my backcountry!

    As I hoped from taking extreme RANT, I mean post; This post has spawned several topics for discussion. Thinning: Legal (or illegal), using dead trees and snags for features, private property, and the blight the Pine Bark Beetle is having on our western forest.

    Lastly, I want to ask the question: What are the impacts of creating features, riding logs, unsanctioned thinning have on the forest? Does such help or hurt the forest (such as the expansion of the pine beetle)? I just genuinely want to know. Do our actions (see above) impact a tree’s protective bark and resins (therefore the forest), and allow the Pine Beetle to spread further? A ranger was upset at me for tying a line around tree for concern for impeding the tree’s protective bark and resin. Was the ranger’s concern true?

    One might think it is only one tree, but take a drive along I-70 and see vast swathes of dead brown beetle infested pine trees. We do not need this parasite further ground to grow, especially, if actions, such as creating log features help further expand the beetles habitat. [Honestly, I admit it is a stretch here, but still a concern to me].

    I cool (actually blow away) with the talent that is moving big mountain snowboarding, including Travis Rice, but keep the Backcountry Pure!

    PS: I like Mtn bikes in my backcountry (not in Wilderness), Hypocrisy? I’m ok with that.

    Shrednar:
    See frame 1:20 to 1:30

    [youtube:s7nw8xnz]C_yoW3IgA40[/youtube:s7nw8xnz]

    and get Stomped! 😆

    #653730
    iriecoyote
    291 Posts

    I’ve been arrested protesting timber sales. In these cases, logging would have seriously degraded the watershed as well as critical wildlife habitat. While the locations were sensitive, the harvest methods involved clearcuts, road building, and of course, heavy equipment. My problem isn’t so much the cutting of a tree but the context and the overall impact an operation may have.

    While I’m not familiar with the intricacies of the site for the supernatural event, in the video I’m not seeing clearcuts nor heavy equipment. In fact, in the final aerial shots, it didn’t look like many trees were taken nor did the ground look heavily damaged. Again, it’s hard making a judgment based on that video, but based on what I saw, this seems more an aesthetic issue than an environmental one. I think the real environmental issues in this sport are mostly related to ski area expansions.

    #653731
    classicauto
    152 Posts

    @ricorides wrote:

    Canadiens, answer me this: Does a tenure permittee have the right to cut trees for something like SuperNatural?

    I think it does. But I’m only 99% on that, I remember something about cutting for use purposes, as in to open a new face for skiing, but unclear on the full details.

    #653732
    shredgnar
    643 Posts

    Unintelligible rants about pine beetles, avalanche hazards, and MY BACKCOUNTRY RAWR! make you seem like either a troll or an uninformed jackass teenager who is a future member of the E.L.F. so the lord of the rings references make sense 😆

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