Forums DIY and Mods reshaping from all camber to early rise??? Is it possible?
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  • #579673
    rughty
    620 Posts

    I have a cambered DIY Salomon Swallowtail with a high turnup at the nose, but want to reshape it to an early rise rocker for better float. Is it even possible? lots of heat, time and pressure? Anyone ever do it? I don’t need much rise to make it work. The other option is lopping off the tail like the hovercraft, but I don’t want a hooky board either. I’m already setback as far as I can be so that’s out. Any suggestions other than the obvious solution of selling it?

    #675228
    Jason4
    443 Posts

    Heat, pressure, and time. I think I saw a write up on doing something like this either at Wildsnow (more likely) or Coldthistle (less likely).

    #675229
    shoestring
    197 Posts

    rughty – i recently traded a pair of skis with a guy in reno that had a DIY early rise – i connected with him on the backcountry talk forum and he had done the DIY early rise with heat, time, etc. PM me and I’ll try to connect the two of you…

    #675230
    walove
    65 Posts

    i rockered the nose on a cambered board, it worked and stayed over time. I built a wood frame that bent the nose much more than the desired rocker. Then wrapped the board in towels and poured boiling water over the board for about an hour as fast as i could bring water to boil. The idea was most boards are pressed around 180f and the working temp of uhmw is 220f so boiling water would be in the right temp zone. My composite research found that if you raise the temp above the first cure temp you can create new crosslinks in the polymer, but not over heat the matrix and break down the epoxy. I had visions of boiling water in a 55gl drum and sticking the bending frame and board into the drum, but it hasnt happened yet. If you had a hot box / oven that you could fit the board into that reached 200f it would work too.

    #675231
    rughty
    620 Posts

    Did this on the fly. Got some heaters with a temp control. These were for the top and one more for the bottom pressed against a sheet of aluminum to distribute the heat.

    Squared it up

    Over pressed it

    Installed the heating elements

    Set it to 100C and turned it on

    Gonna let her sit for an hour or so, turn off the heaters, and let her sit overnight. Hope it works!

    edit:

    Should’ve cut a sheet of aluminum for the top too. It bubbled a little forcing me to fill it with new epoxy and clamp it. Also, my temperature and heat distribution was exceedingly efficient causing my over pressing to be a bit much. Filling the delam and repressing at room temp to slightly counter the heat press to mellow out the rocker.

    #675232
    walove
    65 Posts

    nice work, temperature controlled heaters, would be nice to have them sitting around. Where did it bubble on the top? along the center cut?

    Do you have before and over rockered and final results pictures and measurements.

    #675233
    Scooby2
    620 Posts

    If you are going that far why not just laminate a little carbon fiber on the deck, bend it a bit past where you want it to be, and heat cure it in that position. Or just run a little modern kite line or from a hole near the nose to in front of the front binding and let that pull the nose up? maybe mount a guitar tuning thing in front of your foot and you can adjust the early rise. we’ll need photos of that if you do it.

    #675234
    rughty
    620 Posts

    So…I released the clamp and the board immediately delamed in the same place. Next attempt will be to install the heaters again with aluminum sheet on the top too with all hardware removed. Turn them on with out the press and let the rocker mellow out on its own.

    The deal with adding extra carbon at this point would only make it stiffer. Its already a 9-10 on that scale, so added carbon would make it more like a 12… I’ll post before and after pics when I’m done fixing/fucking up this board. 😆

    #675235
    rughty
    620 Posts

    Ok.. here are the pics from the first attempt:

    That isn’t good!

    Nor this

    shit…..what you can’t see is the nature of the delam other than the obvious bubbling.

    the heaters worked so well that the over pressed rocker shape stuck. It didn’t settle as anticipated. You couldn’t tell from the pics tho

    tried to fix the delam with some epoxy and clamps, but failed as soon as I released the clamps the following day

    Going to attempt to repress again and mellow out the rocker to the proper dimensions with the new setup

    this time I took the time to add a sheet of aluminum on the top along with the bottom piece. Hopefully this resets the delam and mellows out the rocker a little bit to ease the stresses.

    #675236
    maniacdave
    564 Posts

    Cool project, there are a couple of threads on TGR about doing the same thing with skis. Maybe less heat, more time might be a bit more controlled?

    That was Pontus

    #675237
    rughty
    620 Posts

    From what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, you have to heat of above the temp the board was pressed?! I just stuck with the 100c temp controller which is + or – 1c. I placed the probe in a better location this time. I let her sit for an hour again today at work and unplugged it right before I left for the day. I’ll see what it did this time in the am. Looking forward to testing it this weekend if all goes well.

    I do have a secondary super camber split I would love to mellow out with some early rise and tail rocker. I know for a fact it was pressed at 180c as it was the backwards laid up sentury deck I would otherwise never ride. Been doing bindings for so long its a blast experimenting and learning new things!

    #675238
    Scooby2
    620 Posts

    the fibers on top of the core have probably shattered so a bit of resin won’t fix the weak spot, you’d have to sand down to wood and fair in a new layer of glass over the fractured glass to fix it, it might ride for a little bit jest on the strength of the glass on the underside, but the core is pretty thin there so the resistance in compression in the glass on top is pretty important. You might have crushed the wood a bit under that bar also which will probably make the deck composite delam under that dent with a little bit of wood stuck to the glass as well.

    I predict you’ll be making a full board press this summer, you can’t escape :thumpsup:

    #675227
    rughty
    620 Posts

    As soon as I have a garage of my own, I imagine I’ll have lots more things to play around with! It nice having a workplace that pretty much has been my machine shop, work shop, and all around R&D facility over the past ten years. Many breaks over the course of my workday, early arrivals, and late departures and weekends have been spent there following this passion. As for this deck, I think I’m ready to take what I have learned and start the next deck. Seeing as it is sidewall and a split already, it should be a little more straight forward. No sense in trying to fix this one over and over again. Ill just have to split another solid so i can put the interface to use. :thumpsup:

    I’ll get some pics up over the next few days of the next early rise attempt.

    #675239
    rughty
    620 Posts

    So I decided to go ahead with repressing a different board. It happens to be the board that had the backwards laid up core with the million inserts in it. To say this board had camber was a bit of an understatement. 7-8 on the stiffness ranking. Since it was laid up backwards, the nose is stiffer than the tail. Especially since I swallowed the tail to boot. Lots of pop and pretty good edge hold. This deck loves to turn with the standard 8 meter radius I believe. Also the base hulls out a little bit with the K clips installed. Since it was a manufactured split, no cutting or core prep necessary.

    Nose already complete, I also did the tail.

    Pic from the side reveals a successful nose rocker addition.

    Did I mention this deck had mega camber….Even the rockered nose has a little camber left as I didn’t repress all the way through the tip….

    Time to test her out

    Laying this deck on a flat surface revealed the mega camber was decreased to half of original height (which was a huge win considering it peaked at around 1 full inch originally 😯 ). The point of nose rocker to the tip laid flat on the floor. Of course when weighted the nose rose above the floor at the point of rocker. The tail rocker was a bit more successful in that the tail rose above the floor from the point of rocker unweighted.

    So after testing…I found the hulled middle area of the deck acted like a boat hull in the hardpack, variable, and spring conditions. Initiating turns was effortless and very quick compared to my carbon solution. On the hardpack and slow areas at the top of the lift, The board acted like a fully rockered deck, turned easily, tracked straight due to hull effect, no catchy edges, and had the suspension feeling of the cambered mid section. On the runs which consisted of icy washed out sections, hardpacked groomers, chop and spring slush, the board handled everything with ease.

    I wouldn’t make a habit out of doing this to any deck. It really is not a perfect science, but fun doing and learning new things along the way. I was lucky in turning a deck that would’ve gone unridable/unsellable into something truly fun and not a shabby #2 deck for days I’m not planning on straightlining my lines. It took me a few runs in fact to get used to my carbon solution after riding this deck and realized how much of a charger it really is. Two very different boards and fun for very different riding styles.

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