Forums Splitboards Lightest Softboot Splitboard Set-up on the Planet!‏
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  • #778330
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    I admit that the title is clickbait, since I actually have no idea or proof that this claim is true 😉 Although I would think that it has to be or is at least very, very close and true for the board and bindings. I guess there’s lighter snowboard boots out there.

    And ‘freely available’ should be added as well, as this set-up is neither modded or self made or unavailable to the public for any reason. I know some DIY’ers build very light boards as well.

    I’ve never considered myself a weight weenie, but it is nice to gather a light set-up. I haven’t bought a new splitboard in many years and I’m just damned stoked on it and had to share:

    The ingredients:
    Amplid Lab Carbon Split 162
    Amplid Skins
    Karakoram Prime Carbon SL
    Ride RFL boot(2013/2014) size 11

    Old set up:
    Burton S Split 162
    Voile Skins
    Spark The Fuse 2010 & LT brackets
    Salomon Solace boot size 11

    Total weight of one ski with boots, skins and crampons:

    New set-up:
    3910g

    Old set-up:
    4540g

    That is a 630g savings to my old set-up on each foot. A total of 1.26 kg for both and roughly equivalent (so they say) of 6.5kg on my back. NICE!. That should feel great and will hopefully help counter my ever increasing age 🙂 The interesting part will be the snow shedding capabilities of the deck since it has tiny grooves from the exposed carbon, ’cause what good does all the lightweight do if I carry more than usual snow up the hill. Not too concerend though.

    Board weight by itself with Karakoram clips: 2840g
    Board with bindings/complete interface: 4980g

    Old Board: 5840g

    I will post a review of the board once I get it on the snow, because who cares about weight if the board sux. But my first impression so far is that this board will be badass, it has a nice flex. I like the shape and camber profile and the weight is just incredible pulling this beauty out of the box, which by the way arrived at my doorstep within a week of communicating with Peter Bauer and shipped directly from Germany.
    There is zero bells and whistles with this thing, which suits me just fine. I was stoked though that the sidewall happen to be the exact same blue as the Karakorams 😉 Nice touch! Coincidence!?
    Sure do I have concerns about the durability of a lightweight board, who wouldn’t, I’m not a total lightweight either (177lb/80kg), only time will tell. From the looks of it this board looks solid though.


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    The Karakoram Prime SL – There is not much to say there. I’m just really stoked about all the new innovations that Bryce and Tyler have come up with and packed into the Prime system. This should be awesome. Can’t wait to ride them.

    The skins were also a positive surprise. Very light and clean. The Amplid skins come with the board, they are pretrimmed and made by Tirol skin company Kohla and are a high quality mohair/synthetic mix. Only small minus is that the ‘euro style hooks don’t fit normal when the Karakoram clips are swiveled in, which I usually do. I’ll have a look at that, but no big deal.


    Weight of one skin
    Amplid: 299g
    Old Voile: 385g
    To compare I also have a brand new set of G3 High Traction skins, they weight 386g (untrimmed). Those might be for sale soon 😉

    Crampons:
    1 Karakoram Prime: 143 g
    1 Spark Mr. Chumps: 208g

    As for the boots:
    Of course I realize that the Ride RFL is no Fitwell and not as suitable for the mountaineering side of things and might not last as long either, but I’ll make due as I have done in the past. For a lightweight boot this is at least a serious boot.

    Thanks for reading!

    On to the most important weight savings task at hand: Shedding the pounds of the holiday induced extra bodyfat. Damn you candy!

    Got a million edits, since I had trouble embedding the pix, just now saw the Edit log checkbox.

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #778342
    Cbalke
    237 Posts

    I tried to fix the images for you but I was unable to find a direct link to the images where you have them posted. If you have another photo hosting site it should not be an issue.

    Sweet setup by the way! Interested to hear what you think.

    #778345
    permnation
    303 Posts

    Cool thread, thanks for sharing. After reading, the scale came out to see how much I have attached to my foot.

    With one of each minus crampon…3831g ’08 32 ultralight, 4040g ’12 ultralight, and 4148g ’14 deeluxe independent bc. Your weight of 3931 with crampon is pretty damn light!

    All boots are size 11 29.0. The deeluxe has a vibram sole and the 32’s are similar to RFL’s. Board is furberg freeride 160, spark afterburners large w/ heel deal, and high trail skins.

    Working on the body fat thing myself. Keep us posted with a ride report.

    #778352
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    @cbalke Thanks for trying to help. Went back to flickr, but it’s blocked at work, so I had tried something else that wouldn’t work.
    It’s still somewhat tricky. BBC code works for me when I delete the latter 3 thirds of it. Topic for another thread. Wasn’t that a sticky in the old forum?

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #778357
    FloImSchnee
    291 Posts

    Great setup!
    Thanks for posting all the weights!

    Amplid has some great boards to offer. Too bad, they only offer slim waists. (I’d need 270mm and more)

    Board weight by itself with Karakoram clips: 2840g
    Board with bindings/complete interface: 4980g

    Markus just built a new board: http://erstespur.de/viewtopic.php?t=6299
    166cm Board itself: 2270g
    Board with Spark Magneto and interface: 3800g

    (he’s selling custom boards as well)

    My stuff is so much heavier…
    (hope that Jones offers a 164 Ultracraft next year! Would finally be wide enough for my feet.)

    #778373
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    Yes, Flo I had seen Markus (aka Burton) thread about that board (and had known from the past. I’m german (Hallo ;)) and used to be on erstespur.de as well) and that’s why I had mentioned it in my post. He is THE MAN! 3800g is insane, are you sure it’s with touring brackets and all that on the board as well?!
    Have him build you a wider board! I’m sure you would be stoked!

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #778438
    ozsnowbum
    62 Posts

    Its interesting you say the Board weight by itself with Karakoram clips: 2840g.
    My Jones Ultracraft is meant to weight less than that.

    #778593
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    @ozsnowbum Do you know the weight of an 160 Ultracraft with clips on it? It’s no so easy to find accurate weights for all these boards and info on how they weight them.

    Amplid claims the Lab Carbon Split weights 2.3kg and I believe them. But I assume that is for the 157cm with out any hardware on it (no clips).

    So you add 5 cm of board + nose/tail clips + board clips + screws and that gets you there.

    Assuming my scale is accurate !?

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #779766
    nwkayaker
    18 Posts

    @schwalbster, I have an Amplid Lab Carbon 62 myself.

    How are you liking the Kohla skins? We are having an icy low-tide winter around Anchorage and the Kohla skins seem to have a little less bite than others common skins in our current conditions, without gaining any glide. It was really nice to get them pre-cut however and they are definitely light.

    Did you have any issue with inserts bulging out into the base? I set up the my board using the new canted Voile pucks and the screws were a mm too long for some inserts in the rear 4X4 grid and bulged a couple inserts on my board. Cosmetic issue.

    I was really surprised by how stout/substantial and damp the board feels under foot while riding. I have used it only a couple times in some fairly chalky conditions (ankle deep re-crystalized powder over smooth knife hard). Hoping for a solid powder day soon to really test it out.

    While skinning, The Lab Carbon 62 is absolutely amazing. I haven’t busted out a digital scale but I feel like have a pound less on each foot than with my Prior AMFs. The full camber in the back half of the board seems to add purchase on the uphill, need to test further with another set of BD skins, I planned to cut down.

    #779770
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    @schwalbster, I have an Amplid Lab Carbon 62 myself.

    How are you liking the Kohla skins? We are having an icy low-tide winter around Anchorage and the Kohla skins seem to have a little ……………

    Nice! Good to hear that you like how the board feels!

    We are desperately waiting for snow here in California and it will be a while before I can take my Amplid out! Therefore no idea how the skins perform. I will follow up as soon as have some impressions.

    I had no issues at all mounting my hardware. Karakoram provide shorter screws for thin core boards, but I didn’t need them. All good.

    Would love to hear more once you get some pow!

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #780177
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    Did a minitour (can’t even call it a tour, I walked up through the woods by Mammoth for 45min, the backckountry doesn’t really go yet, it’s such low tide, it looks sad) with my new set up and I’m in love!

    Rode the Primes with my solid board and my splitboard in the resort for several hours each, so time on it is very limited so far. Might write a full review after a full season and riding variable conditions.

    The Amplid is a killer board, flex and rocker profile seem to be in perfect harmony. Perfect edge hold and the board feels absolutely solid underfoot. Time will tell if it holds up to the stresses of real touring.

    The touring weight is a dream!

    There are boards that feel like a natural extension of your body from the get go, then there are boards that need some getting used to, sometimes you love those too in the end. Sometimes you don’t. The Amplid was the former for me, it did not need any getting used to at all. Loved it from the first run. With the solid, the Ride Ultralight I’m not so sure about rocker yet, it felt a little too loose (washy) in the nose for me. Sort of what I expected with rocker in the resort. I’ve tested rockered boards in the backcountry, but as far as my own boards it has always been full camber. I’m sure it’s great in pow. Not so with the Amplid, love their s-rocker. No washy anything.

    The Amplid feels very durable riding it. The thin race edge remains a concern, but for that to judge I would need to hit a rock, so hopefully that won’t happen.

    So far I’m super stoked on it and I can’t wait to ride it in powder.

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #781378
    buell
    534 Posts

    Any updates on the board? Boney year for sure. Did you ever hit any rocks?

    #789886
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    @buell, sorry I missed your post last March. Well we are more than caught up now 😉

    I’ve finally been out on the board some more and all my previous statements hold true. It’s a killer board. Had a variety of conditions. From powder on the denser side, to some heavier sun affected butter and some firm windboard. The board handled exceptionally well in all conditions. It’s just a blast to ride.
    It’s so nice to have light feet while skinning.
    Snow build up on the deck was not any worse or better than other boards I’ve used. A friend had 2015/2016 Solution out and it looked similar.
    I did have a couple slips with the Kohla skins, which caught me a little off guard, because I’m used to the bomber grip of Voile skins. But Buell whom I was was out with, said it was indeed a very slippery skin track and its’ pretty normal for those type of skins. I fiddled with my nose clip a little more and can flip them further in so it works, just user error at first.

    Very excited with my Karakoram Primes SL as well. Just super solid feel, always loved that about them, whenever I tested KK’s. Coming from older Sparks and pucks, it takes a bit of getting used to the different transition process and it involves a bit more cleaning, but it’s nothing in my eyes compared to the benefit I get from them.

    So the Amplid and Karakoram stoke continues for me!.

    At this point it is pointless to continue this thread as this board is now outdated and I refer to Buell’s excellent review of the Amplid Milligram

    because he is a) A million times more articulate than I am (but I second all his sensations and benefits he gets from his Milligram, I feel very similar about my Lab Carbon Split, even though the board has a different profile)
    and b) he gets out much more than me 😉

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #800856
    ieism
    298 Posts

    The Amplid is a great board. Everybody who rides one seems to love it.

    Dropping weight on your setup is pretty nice, but after a recent trip I’ve come to the conclusion that it doesn’t really matter for me. Turns out one of the heaviest setups I tested this season was the fastest on the skintrack. Weight is not everything, there are many more factors involved.

    I have a few pretty light boards, A Prior carbon and an OZ asym carbon. Both are full carbon construction, and boards don’t get much lighter than those right now. I also have a lightweight Magneto Binding with some go fast bits, very light skins and very light boots. Out of all of those, I still think the boots make the biggest difference in weight. You can spend a few hundred on a carbon board, but you can easily save more weight by picking a light boot next time like a 32 TM or a Salomon F3.0.

    So I’m a bit of a weight watcher, I recently upgraded my avy pack and actually weigh all the stuff that goes in and replace whenever possible. I find that the weight of my pack ruins my day much more than on my feet. So I’m at less than 3kg now with a full avy pack for a 2 day tour. Carbon everything, It’s pretty sad really…

    Then I had a bit of an epiphany while touring with the Plum Talps setup I demo’d. This is heavier by more than a kilo than what I normally use, but it felt much faster. I even did the same tour twice in a day to check, and it actually was faster. How so? Well the board is designed to go up. It has just the right camber, just the right place for the touring bracket. And all corners of the ski’s are very rounded off so it felt almost like my ski’s. I had a Contour mohair skin on that was fast, and the bindings are very solid and pivot smoothly. I also feel that a large radius board tours better than a small radius one. Next years Plum stuff will be lighter, I’m looking forward to testing that one.

    This is not a Plum commercial either, I get lots of help from other companies when it comes to gear so I’m free to pick my own stuff. I love my boards and Sparks, but the Plum is just faster uphill by design.

    As a “consumer” who sometimes buys his own stuff, I actually really prefer the heavier boards. Both the Plum and my Furbergs were pretty much the only boards that survived our Splitfest without coreshots and scratches. Ptex is thicker and more durable, and so are the edges. Some of the Jones stuff was beyond local repair after a single day. To me that is unacceptable. We didn’t even take the carbon stuff out for fear of damaging it, I don’t have that problem with Furberg as they are the most bomber construction on the market right now. Plum seems to be on that level too. It’s a Splitboard, it should be durable enough to last a few seasons.

    So as someone who has tested and tried a lot, and is a bit of a weight weenie too. I’d have to conclude that carbon boards are not that much of a big deal to me. Nice to have, but will not make you noticeably faster in my opnion.

    I’m talking about softboots here… hardboots I have no experience with.

    http://flatlandsplitfest.com/

    #800928
    buell
    534 Posts

    ieism, it sounds like you do a lot of work to figure out your touring gear. Testing is the best way to know what works for you.

    As someone who strives for lighter weight gear, I completely agree that weight is not everything. Good overall design will have a greater effect than any single aspect of the design, including weight. The goal is good overall design combined with lightweight. As you mention, the Plum design worked really well for you but you are looking forward to trying the lighter version next season. The Plum design that weighs 1 Kg less would be even faster to the top, especially on a medium to longer day.

    It is true that not everyone is going to want a light weight board. Some will find condition dependent performance advantages in a bit more weight. Others will figure that a heavier board will be more durable. Some people just don’t seem to mind the weight.

    I wish you would have taken the carbon boards out at the splitfest since durability in that situation is the biggest question about lightweight boards. I am only one sample, but my original 158 Milligram from last season has roughly 45 days on it and a 163 I bought for this season has 15 days on it. Rock impacts are common where I ride and both boards are in better shape than any of my previous standard construction boards with that many days on them. In fact I broke my previous 7.5 pound board after about 25 tours.

    Having now ridden the super light Gignoux boots and having switched last year to the Amplid Milligram, I find board weight to be more significant than boot weight, for skinning and riding anyway. The boot weight is compact and right around my feet, but the board weight is amplified as swing weight. That said, it makes sense to strive for both the boots and the board being lighter, as long as you can maintain the performance you seek (and possibly a budget you can afford).

    I definitely agree that pack weight and pack volume have a significant effect on my riding.

    #800947
    schwalbster
    317 Posts

    I knew Buell would reply to this, right on cue. Ha! Buell and I have become friends over the last couple years and he is the ultimate weight weenie and gear head that I know. And it’s been very interesting for me to observe him and his gear. I ride softboots and I always will, so I will never be able to come even close to his weight.

    I very much agree with Buells’ sentiment that it’s overall design combined with lightweight that is the goal. But when we talk uphill speed I would like to steer away a little bit from the main focus being the gear. I would think by far the biggest factor for uphill speed is fitness, right? And then daily form and acclimatization status. I personally feel strongest on my third day in the mountains (I live at sea level). Then there are many minor things, how well did you sleep, what did you eat, had any beers the night before, are you keeping yourself well fueled and hydrated with the right things during your day etc. etc.
    Some days you feel great and have a feeling you could go on forever, other days you feel you have legs made of lead.
    I’m stoked for you that you liked the Plum set-up and had such a positive experience. But I can not imagine for the life of me that the board (with it being heavier on top of it) alone made you go uphill that much faster. That would just be against all logic. There is only so much gain that ski shape, camber, skin hair type, bindings, pivot point etc can do to affect uphill speed. I would think lightweight mostly helps with less fatigue over time, not necessarily uphill speed. Especially on shorter tours (I’m assuming here it wasn’t a long trip since you said you did it twice that day. But then again there a people out there who do amazing feats) it might not make much of a difference at all. But over longer duration it must be. Moving heavier things repeatedly creates fatigue earlier. From my point of view that is a fact that can’t be argued.

    I have a couple questions: How many days had you spent in the mountains prior when you felt slower. How do you measure uphill speed? (Given that there can be many variables with elevation gain, total distance, terrain, slope angles, snow conditions etc.) Was it during your guys Splitfest? Were you super amped to be out, the day you felt faster? On the second lap when you actually measured the speed, did you maybe want to prove that this board is faster and subconsciously pushed a little harder? Even though you seem convinced that it was really just the board, I would argue it’s hard to say why exactly you were faster.

    But what I really want to know ieism is what the hell is in your backpack (or better what is not in it ;)?? 3kg for a 2 day tour!? I can not see how that is even close to possible and I have tons more questions 😉 ! Most Avy packs are above 2kg already, so add probe and shovel to that and an energy bar 😉 and you’re at 3kg right away.
    But let’s have some fun. As far as I know the new Mammut ultralight 20L is the lightest avy pack on the market and if you equip that with the carbon cartridge it clocks in at just 1510g (I know all that because that is one of the packs Buell has and he is dying to get the Carbon cartridge and we were looking into it if I could bring it back for him from a recent trip to Europe I did, but no dice. Can’t fly with it. It doesn’t get shipped to the US either. Yet. I see you must be from the Netherlands so you can get it.) Lightest probes hover just below 200g, lightest shovels are around 500g (again as far I know). So that would leave about just 800g for everything else?? Zero extra clothing? What about some essentials like first aid and repair kits etc. What about axe and crampons? Do you not count water and food? Do you ride with a helmet and do you count that as backpack weight? And what does 2 day tour mean to you? I know that in Europe you could technically get by with just a credit card, a hut sleeping bag and a toothbrush if you stay in a mountain hut with full catering, foregoing any and all comfort items.

    Anyway I’m dying to hear how you measure that and how you came down to just 3kg!!??

    After much research, experimentation and consideration, I have decided adulthood is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity.

    #800951
    permnation
    303 Posts

    lightest shovels are around 500g (again as far I know).

    http://skimo.co/merelli-carbon-shovel This will drop your pack weight.

    #800952
    Snurfer
    1447 Posts

    lightest shovels are around 500g (again as far I know).

    http://skimo.co/merelli-carbon-shovel This will drop your pack weight.

    Indeed, your wallet as well 😉

    Shark Snowsurf Chuna
    Voile V-Tail 170 BC
    Voile One Ninety Five
    Spark R&D Arc

    #800958
    karkis
    268 Posts

    I can not imagine for the life of me that the board (with it being heavier on top of it) alone made you go uphill that much faster. That would just be against all logic. There is only so much gain that ski shape, camber, skin hair type, bindings, pivot point etc can do to affect uphill speed. I would think lightweight mostly helps with less fatigue over time, not necessarily uphill speed…….
    Moving heavier things repeatedly creates fatigue earlier. From my point of view that is a fact that can’t be argued.

    i think you’re missing 2 things Schwalbster…

    F=ma, less weight is more acceleration with the same force… lighter is faster, definitely!

    and sure yah fitness for sure but otherwise you are pretty focussed on weight, there is a lot that ski shape, pivot point and mohair can do for you, that’s efficiency, less friction in the system, less wasted effort, go further faster easier, and less fatigue.

    never summer snowboards
    phantom splitboard bindings
    dynafit touring
    atomic boots

    #800972
    ieism
    298 Posts

    Haha, I figured that would get you guys mildly exited… Indeed I’m using a Mammut Ultralight now with carbon bottle, with an Arva Carbon light 155g and a strenghtened Arva Ultra shovel (under 350 grams). So that would be around 2kg.

    You can buy the carbon cylinder form a shop in Europe and just tell them to ship it. At your own risk, but it has been done. I hate heavy packs, so I’m happy with my setup now.
    Bear in mind, huts in the Europe are more like hotels sometimes. You won’t need to bring food or much water at all. Some socks and a shirt, gloves, a bedsheet and that’s it.

    I can weigh the pack loaded for you if interested, but it’s under 3kg for sure.

    Like I said, I own two lightweight boards, but they almost never get used. You don’t have to go try a Plum to get a feeling for how much the rounded tips and tail add to faster skinning. Just try a very wide freeride ski, you’ll soon get the idea. That’s not to say it’s as good as a ski, but it’s heaps better than my own splitboards. Shape, balance and skinglide make a huge difference. Have you ever tried skinning with something like a Venture Euphoria in a narrow skintrack set by skieers?
    I’ve demo’d Plum stuff both before and after our Splitfest. I sort of have it as a loaner untill I return it to them right now. I think I have a pretty good feel for how fast a board skins, I’ve tried enough stuff over the years for sure.

    I absolutely have faith in Amplid’s contruction, it will stand up to normal use. Out of all carbon boards I tested that feels the most like a normal board to me. I also own light Amplid telemark ski’s and I’m a bit of a fan of their stuff. But I’ve seen enough boards damaged or broken to be a bit sceptical of lightweight construction. Besides, if you do damage it, it’s not the cheapest thing to replace. They are seriously expensive, so that’s why we didn’t give out carbon demo’s if conditions are shit.

    I guess I like lightweight stuff a lot, I’m definately a major weight weenie myself. But the board is the only part of my setup were I don’t actually use lightweight stuff for a reason. That’s a personal thing, I don’t feel much difference and would rather not worry about damaging my splitboard all the time.

    http://flatlandsplitfest.com/

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