Forums Splitboards Jones Solution Carbon 2013
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  • #576884
    IrishGav
    254 Posts

    So who’s on board for one of these for 2013?
    This was my first year on a solution and it was my go to board for everything,like the idea on the carbon and also going up from a 161 to 164.
    But i’ve never had anything like this and if people know who i am,i break shit alot.
    Is this board going to break? will the tunisians get it sorted? who knows,not seen too much online about this or any video of JJ or crew riding this.

    Did find a store taking pre-roders already though and the price is’nt as bad as i thought $1,099
    http://www.basinshopping.com/Product/2013-Jones-Solution-Carbon.27250.3048.aspx

    Opinions?

    #655597
    philip.ak
    679 Posts

    After switching back and forth between my Venture Zephyr and Jones Solution a lot this year, I decided I like my Venture more, so no, I won’t be plunking over 1k clams down on a carbon Jones. 8)

    #655598
    ieism
    298 Posts

    I’d like to know how much carbon is actually in that thing. I bet it’s just a fiberglas baord with some stringers and a fancy carbonlook topsheet.

    But prove me wrong.

    http://flatlandsplitfest.com/

    #655599
    Freighttrain48
    73 Posts

    Three hundred clams to save 200 grams(pretty sure thats the weight savings) is a lot in my mind. I think my money would be better spent upgrading my karakourams or shaving weight else were(pack and other equipment.) I know that every gram counts on your setup but I cant see spending another 1099 on the same board I have but 6oz lighter.

    #655600
    SPLITRIPPIN
    709 Posts

    Hmmmmm, so I read this on car companies using carbon fiber in their cars….

    “The Toyota study concluded that carbon-fiber production creates more CO2 per pound than any other automotive material in use today. This begs the question, just how “green” is carbon fiber and is it really the right solution for reducing vehicle weight?”

    If that info is correct, and relates to the Jones line…

    Don’t know.. Seems kinda “against” what Jones is supposed to be “for”. Almost like when they decided that putting themselvs in the position to possibly have to shoot a polar bear to get some lines… :thumbsdown:

    #655601
    shredgnar
    643 Posts

    SO now we are going to start calling out Jones for the use of carbon in his boards. Something that the snowboard industry has been doing for well over 15 years.

    #655602
    whistlermaverick
    312 Posts
    Freighttrain48 wrote:
    Three hundred clams to save 200 grams/quote]

    Prior, 200 clams to save 600g

    easy math

    @j.memay

    #655603
    silver
    167 Posts

    @shredgnar wrote:

    SO now we are going to start calling out Jones for the use of carbon in his boards. Something that the snowboard industry has been doing for well over 15 years.

    Not necessarily in favor of “calling out” Jones for use of carbon in his boards, but it does seem somewhat incongruous with public statements of concern re: climate change and his work with POW. And those positions aren’t ones that the snowboard industry as a whole has publicly professed.

    I fully respect what Jones does in the mountains and also to raise awareness and support for climate change solutions. His boards, (QC issues aside) ride great. Still, he should have someone on staff whose job it is to harmonize all three of these aspects (riding, advocacy, and product) otherwise the environmental talk starts to look like greenwashing. It would have been simple (and inexpensive) enough to include a small surcharge to buy some carbon offsets to account for the extra GHG impact of a carbon fiber board. That would have been consistent with all of Jones’ stated values.

    #655604
    shredgnar
    643 Posts

    @silver wrote:

    Not necessarily in favor of “calling out” Jones for use of carbon in his boards, but it does seem somewhat incongruous with public statements of concern re: climate change and his work with POW. And those positions aren’t ones that the snowboard industry as a whole has publicly professed.

    I fully respect what Jones does in the mountains and also to raise awareness and support for climate change solutions. His boards, (QC issues aside) ride great. Still, he should have someone on staff whose job it is to harmonize all three of these aspects (riding, advocacy, and product) otherwise the environmental talk starts to look like greenwashing. It would have been simple (and inexpensive) enough to include a small surcharge to buy some carbon offsets to account for the extra GHG impact of a carbon fiber board. That would have been consistent with all of Jones’ stated values.

    Well stated. I agree. But for a small start up company, it is tough to invest in that kind of money when you are still building the brand. For as much as people think that Jones is a big company, they are smaller than 90% of the brands out there.

    The comparison in the original article was made between carbon and steel, and the CO2 production associated with the automobile industry. Lets see, how much carbon fiber goes into a car and how much is in a snowboard? Could that study have been funded by the steel industry who is very influential in the automotive industry?

    The point I’m making, contrary to splitrippin, is that Jones probably uses enough carbon in all of the carbon solutions it will make next year, as three fully carbon cars, which the study was based on (yeah, I’m guestimating). Calling out a new, small company for putting carbon fiber in it’s boards, when a lot of other board companies do the same thing, is ridiculous. Then comparing them to a study done on the automobile industry, which is only slightly bigger than the splitboard industry, is just wrong.

    What is missing from his statement is a) Scale, b) industry standards, and c) scope.

    A few other things to think about. How many boards on the market have wood cores. Trees reduce carbon by turning it into oxygen. If you are cutting down trees, isn’t that increasing the carbon footprint? Should we all start riding foam core boards? Well how much CO2 does that create? Ahhhhh! Crap, Im just gonna start skiing because snowboards are so bad for the environment.

    It’s a process, it’s heading in the right direction. Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweating things and you will be good.

    #655605
    karkis
    270 Posts

    im gonna change my loser name to ‘math nazi’ just now…

    if carbon fibre produces more co2 per structural unit than steel (ive actually heard that arguement before… somewhere… :scratch: )… steel uses alot! of energy (burnt fossil fuels) to produce… in snowboards carbon generally replaces glass… not so much footprint there, id say if one is big against climate change, one oughtta man up and drag some heavier sticks around, your fuel is renewable.

    also wood is considered carbon neutral as it uses co2 as it grows and emits the same as it decays…. if you embalm it in a case of plastic carbon glass and steel it may potentially be a carbon sink and Jones is actually saving the world!! one deck at a time 😕

    never summer snowboards
    phantom splitboard bindings
    dynafit touring
    atomic boots

    #655606
    chrisNZ
    304 Posts

    Geting out of the lift line and Skinning will offset the the required energy at some point….

    #655607
    philip.ak
    679 Posts

    You produce CO2 when you exhale, and you are working (breathing) harder when skinning than when riding the lift, so you may have a larger carbon footprint in the backcountry. Then again you will be working less hard with a lighter board and so over the life of the product you may offset the addition of carbon to the board.

    Just glad I can contribute more worthless speculation to this thread. :thumpsup:

    #655608
    chrisNZ
    304 Posts

    The bigest problem will be making the carbon and non carbon decks feel the same.

    #655609
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    My 2 cents.

    I doubt there is much difference in producing a carbon board vs. a glass fiber board in terms of carbon emissions. The data which ‘TRIPPIN’ posted is for carbon vs steel, and I suspect that most of the emissions are from the resins rather than from the fibers, anyone know the straight poop on this?
    RE wood cores, I believe Jones uses all FSC certified wood right? No issues there either.

    As for weight savings, it is clear that the Solution Carbon is not an entirely carbon fiber layup, it is mixed glass/carbon, hence the weight savings are not as extensive as Prior’s XTC Carbon, which is a 100% carbon layup.

    As for strength and ride quality-well, this is all up to the engineering and how well they have done it. Carbon fiber layups have the potential to offer better ride quality than glass when properly engineered, because of carbon fiber’s natural damping properties and extreme strength. Ask anyone who skis DPS’ Pure Carbon skis. But, make sure they are gonna honor the warranty-so far Jones seems like they are pretty good at that. If they start breaking, hopefully early adopters will be able to get their hands on 2nd gen carbon boards as replacements.

    I applaud those manufacturers looking to save weight and offer improved performance through the use of carbon fiber, it may take a little while to get there, but for high end boards I suspect we will see widespread use and acceptance of full carbon layup boards as the potential for improved performance is there-just look at other sporting goods… But, it takes experience with carbon to get the best out of it, one cannot just replace glass with carbon-the board has to be re-engineered in terms of layup and core profile, so expect further improvements in carbon boards as companies get more experience working with it.

    #655610
    tiltedworld
    406 Posts

    Agreed, I’d like to see a couple of generations of happy customers before I committed to a carbon deck. Every one that I’ve ridden was light and stiff, but lacked a lively feel completely. Oh and they were fragile as hell.

    #655611
    IrishGav
    254 Posts

    Well there you have it,i’m not getting one,will wait a coupe of seasons and see whats up,i made the mistake with Karakroam and i will do my best not to be like a rabbit in the head lights with all the shinny new stuff,stick to what works 😀

    #655612
    ieism
    298 Posts

    @barrows wrote:

    My 2 cents.

    I doubt there is much difference in producing a carbon board vs. a glass fiber board in terms of carbon emissions. The data which ‘TRIPPIN’ posted is for carbon vs steel, and I suspect that most of the emissions are from the resins rather than from the fibers, anyone know the straight poop on this?

    Well, glassfibre is molten glass and it takes a fair bit of heat to melt glass. I think carbon is essentially made by heating stuff untill everything burns off exept the carbon. This takes nearly twice as much heat and is a very inefficient way to make something.
    If they compare automotive carbonfibre it’s probably prepreg that will be put in an autoclave too. That process uses more energy on top of producing the raw materials.

    If you compare it to an airplane, there isn’t much carbon fibre in a snowboard. And you use a little bit less carbonfibre than glassfibre or your board will be too stiff.

    http://flatlandsplitfest.com/

    #655613
    ChadHam
    11 Posts

    Great thread, keep the comments coming, thought I would make some comments

    So here is the 411 on our 2013 Carbon Solution.

    First off these are limited run, so if you get one this coming season you will be one of a few, as far as the environmental impact/stewardship goes, this is a snowboard company and we do our best to have a limited impact on the environment, it is still a focus and we as well as POW contribute a lot to various programs that positively impact the environment – from education to activism. Building snowboards is straight forward – we use resins, plastic, wood, steel, glass fibers and space age materials, we cannot avoid that, we have to use the materials to bring you the products you want to ride. Of course we do our best to endeavor to use more environmentally sound processes and materials that we deem suitable to our rider’s needs such as FSC cores, recycled bases with flip flop colors that limit the amount of wasted base material. It is no secret that Jeremy is passionate about the environment and has done his fair share to put the subject in front of people’s minds – sure you could call him out, but that is not going to change his overall mission as an individual.

    The Carbon Solution was not created to shave weight, it was created for the dampening, stiffness and fast reaction characteristics that cater to the most advanced and technical freeriders out there. We wanted to create a board that will charge at high speeds, grip on edge in icy conditions and be able to charge through varying conditions as well as handle the chunder and debris fields with limited ease. Will we develop a lighter weight board using Carbon? Surely we will explore this option. The good thing is we did shave 200 grams from the board, that is a plus for the board, but when you ride it you will realize what the board was built for. Personally I have spent most my spring on this board, it has been an amazing experience thus far, looking forward to some volcano action this spring and summer on it.

    Second someone mentioned making a carbon that rides like the regular Solution – that was not the overall goal, had that been we would not have made the Carbon version. The over goal of the board is stated above.

    Third – Quality issues – now that we have changed our manufacturing, our QC issues will be a lot lower than in the previous 2 collections from Jones Snowboards. The riders spoke and we listened. We are committed to putting out the highest quality finished boards and for those of you whom experienced issues, we are truly sorry for those issues but we have taken the necessary steps to alleviate these issues by shifting to the most reputable manufacturer in Europe to produce our boards moving forward. Both Jeremy and myself are doing on site inspection of all production at the factory. SO know moving forward Jones is committed to producing the best freeride snowboard products on the planet.

    Should you guys have any questions regrading Jones feel free to contact me directly at the email below, we welcome constructive feedback. (Sorry if I do not respond directly on here, as we are small, I can only get on here every so often)

    Again thanks for your comments, we do read and listen

    Chad Perrin
    Brand Manager
    Jones Snowboards
    chad@jonessnowboards.com

    #655614
    tiltedworld
    406 Posts

    Thanks Chad,

    My comment on how the Carbon Solution might ride was based on past experiences with carbon boards.

    Jones has done right by me, the boards are some of the best I’ve ever ridden in my 24 years of riding. :thatrocks: So much so that my experiences this year on the Flag58 and Hover60 led me to add a new Solution61 to my quiver and next year I will sell my Hover60 to swap out with a Hover60 split, as its a better tool for the inbounds/sidecountry days than keeping the solid Hover60, which I can easily say is the best powder board I’ve ever ridden. I am truly a Jones convert! :headbang:

    One thing that continually irks me is the Flag topsheet, as even with treating the topsheet, the ash allows a lot of snow to stick to the topsheet. Is there another treatment that could be applied? Wood wax? I wish you’d have just kept with the thin film… :scratch:

    Also wish the 58 radius was in the low, 9m range and more pop in the tail like the Hover, but that’s a minor nit.

    Brendan

    #655615
    ChadHam
    11 Posts

    Brendan,
    Thanks for the support and continued support is even more appreciate. In terms of the topsheet on the Flagship, I have cut and pasted some processes to consider that we posted on our Facebook page 2 seasons ago, let me know if it helps you:

    It’s possible that after a few times riding your Flagship you will begin to see some dark discoloration on the board’s topsheet. What’s occurring is a natural process of oxidation when the water and wood interact with one another. The discoloration that is present does not mean that there is water under the topsheet; rather this is the wood protecting itself. Also bear in mind that the top sheet is only a thin layer of wood, with a barrier of glass and resin beneath it, the core is protected from the entry of moisture.

    You can remove the discoloration by completing these steps:

    1) Let the board dry completely in a room that is at least 70F. We recommend that you allow the board to dry with the bindings removed for at least 24 hrs. If you are able to allow the board to cure longer we recommend up to 1 week ensuring that it’s completely dry.

    2) After the board is dry prep the topsheet by using a Scotch-Bright pad or fine sandpaper (150/180 grit).

    3) Apply 1 or 2 coats of external wood oil varnish, which is rated for tech / marine / furniture.

    Completing these steps will ensure the longevity of your board and many memorable powder turns.

    Keep on Hovercraftin’

    Best Regards,

    Chad Perrin
    Brand Manager
    Jones Snowboards

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