Forums Boots Hardbooters, what size are your boots? do you downsize?
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  • #580416
    Mr_Orange
    76 Posts

    Hardbooters, can you post your mondo boot size in relation to your shoe size?

    I’m new to hardboots. Got a Garmont megalite in size 26. I’m a size 8.5 street shoe size.

    When doing some research, especially on Teton Gravity forums, it seems like a lot of skiers down size their hardboots by 1-2 sizes.

    Here’s a good summary of a lot of what I’ve been reading up on:
    http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitting-which-boot-will-work-for-me

    It sounds like the best way to test your fit is to take the liner, put your foot in the shell, toes touching front, and see what the space is between your heel and the back of the shell. For me it’s around 20mm when I do this.

    According to the info from here: (http://blistergearreview.com/gear-101/boot-fitting-101/boot-fitting-101), this is sort of like an intermediate skier’s fit / comfort fit. So, this is with no downsizing, just going by the chart.

    On Teton gravity there’s many posts about this and it seems like the 12mm behind the heel on that test is the most popular. That’s about 1 shell size down. Check out this thread for example: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/107465-How-tight-are-your-boots

    Down sizing even smaller than that would be considered a “race fit”. Here’s an example of a “race fit” coming from actually another community, the alpine snowboarders, going up to 2 sizes down! (pictures included): http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?28424-Boots-Race-Fit

    So, that’s skiers and alpine boarders. What would be the ideal ‘fit’ for splitboarding/touring? Is there any difference? Do the hard booters here downsize?

    I read somewhere that having a more comfortable/looser fit is more comfortable for the climb up.

    Also, if you did downsize, was there any modifications involved in terms of punching, stretching, and grinding the shell?

    I’m trying to determine whether or not to keep this boot. It actually already feels pretty tight already, but if i change the liner to one that’s really thin in the front, there seems to be more room to grow.

    I actually just snatched another ebay deal on the same boot for even way cheaper than my current one (The megalite’s go for pretty cheap already for a hard boot). It’s a mondo 24 though! That would be 2 sizes down, putting me in the ‘race fit’ zone. However, I saw this video and it says you can have the boot stretched to go up 1 size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBMkFIQi9LQ

    So, I have the full range of fit options to try out? Which should i go with?

    #678657
    Mr_Orange
    76 Posts

    Oh yea, another alternative solution to controlling the fit would be to go for the correct fit shell, and get a thicker liner.

    So for me, it would be keeping my mondo 26, seeing how that fits, and if it get’s loose, I can get one of the higher volume Intuition PowerWrap liners.

    Here’s some info on some even getting the next size up intuition liner to take up more volume: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/94058-intuition-liner-sizing-question

    Quote: “When I was in the factory and wanted to have a tighter fit in my x-waves, the owner gave me a size 10 liner for my 26.5 (8.5) boot….”

    So, would up sizing the liner be better than downsizing the shell?

    #678658
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    The simple short answer is do not down size! Race fit is a bad idea for touring :nononno: . You want your feet to be warm and plenty of room for your toes in the toe box. While the ankle and heel are snug fit . Do not cram your toes into a boot. This is what gives me that surfy feeling in hard boots.

    The longer answer …
    For fit I like to where my hard boots barely snug to tighten down depending on the snow conditions I am riding (aka powder to boiler plate) at that time. This is adjustability is a huge benefit for wearing hard boots with the The Eliminator Custom Tongue. Plus the Eliminator tongue allows for a progressive forward lean in a pair of stock hard boots. Whereby wearing the top of boot barely snug allows for a more medial flex (tip to tail).

    The Eliminator Custom Tongue attaches in seconds to existing boot tongues with supplied Velcro disks (or permanently with contact cement) and comfortably secures the foot in the heel pocket helping skiers and snowboarders to ski and ride better instantly!

    See: http://masterfitinc.com/products/the-eliminator/

    Are your boots have thermo-moldable liners. Strongly consider get the liners/boots thermo-molded a a shop / boot fitter. Also custom insoles if needed. I like the SuperFeet (red).

    Going back to another post. Ultimately you want boots – bindings – stance to feel in a natural alignment. You do not want to force a fit issue in the backcountry and suffer for it. Be willing to try different tweaks (such as fitting, stance changes, binding cants, toe and heel lift) on-piste. For example you if ride duck-stance, but the Hard Boots are not allowing for a natural alignment, well try a forward stance. Allow the HB system to work for you. [Please note I am not saying you cannot ride duck with hard boots, it can be done. I just do not bend that way to ride duck].

    Lastly, does your boots come with a softer plastic tongue? Might be worth a try after the above mention tweaks.

    Unlike breaking-in a new pair of soft boots; Try a progression of small modifications listed above (what I call tweaks). Such tweaks will give you instant feedback as to what is working for you.

    Also helps to know where your shell size breaks (goes up to the next shell size). see : http://gearx.com/blog/2010/09/17/a-quick-ski-boot-fit-guide-for-alpine-touring-and-telemark-boots/
    and fitting:
    http://gearx.com/blog/knowledge/skiing/how-to-size-ski-boots/

    #678659
    Mr_Orange
    76 Posts

    Hmm, guess i might go with the 26’s. Or at least try them out first.

    I’ve actually been using eliminator tongues for quite a while now. Really like them.

    If you use a thermo liner like intuitions, would it make sense to have the eliminator tongues in during the molding process?

    Also, Powder Rider, you mentioned in another thread this:

    @Powder_Rider wrote:

    I have ridden the following bindings, Burton Race, SnowPro, Voile Mountain Plates, Bomber Splitboard and Bomber Sidewinder Splitboard. Both Burton and the SnowPro were modded to the Voile Slider Tracks.

    and this….

    @Powder_Rider wrote:

    On Alpine Snowboard Boots (HBs) the heal stack height is a couple millimeters higher than an AT boot. When I purchased the Bomber Sidewinders at the Bomber Shop (Silverthrone), Finn grinded down rear bail stop to accommodate a lower heel stack height of the Scarpa F1s.

    Did any of your other plate bindings fit properly with your boots right out the box without any modifications?

    Are there ways you can modify the thickness of your boot sole or maybe even add padding to the plate binding area you stand on to make the binding bails fit snug?

    Just found this video of a boot fitting adding “lifts” to a boot sole: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTVoQ-x2TaA

    #678660
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    If you use a thermo liner like intuitions, would it make sense to have the eliminator tongues in during the molding process?

    No, just go ahead and have the shop mold them without the Eliminators.

    Concerning heel stack height, All the bindings worked except for the Sidewinders, which Finn (Bomber corrected at the shop. Also Voile Mtn Plate had trouble with the Scarpa F1 boot (boot flexes as like a telemark boot). But Voiles did work on a Scapa Matrix boot.

    Did any of your other plate bindings fit properly with your boots right out the box without any modifications?

    In particular Burton Race Plate and Snow Pro Race bindings. Note: My wife and I ride Burton Race on all our solid boards. Able to move bindings between boards with Burton Quick Disks (no longer made).

    If you choose to mod plate bindings onto a voile plates the key is to ride the bindings first on a solid first. Get the right tension on the bails (aka a sweet spot / click). note the length on the bail that hinge at the binding. Or in case of burton race plates the mounted binding screws.

    Create a jig (steel block) or pattern and apply / drill to the voile plate. Example Burton Race Plate:

    My 27 mondo boots mount on the out board screws of the burton race places at the 5 setting. Take a set of calipers. Measure the distances (right triangles. Create a rectangle with X pattern for a template) of the empty inside screws holes. The inside screws closely match the voile slider track hole pattern. Apply to a steel to steel template jig. Note Jig slides into the slider track.

    Note I tried to to do mounting Burton Race Plates without a jig and while the boot fitted well at first (carpet test) when I boot the weight (standing up) I could move my boot around in the binding. No good on the tension. So I drilled and dremel (grinded) a millimeter or two to much.

    The center of the X in the pattern is should be your boot center and which also center-line of the binding (where the Split skis inside edges match together).

    I had far less hassle mounting Snow Pro Race Bindings to Voile Plates, but prefer the Burton Race Bindings. Burton Race plates are lighter.

    If this all sounds confusing then look for a stock splitboard HB bindings. Still waiting for Spark to Ship Spark R and D Dynos. :nononno: Purchased Dynos through MountainGear three weeks ago and still on backorder. I see REI has Dynos listed as backorder too.

    If your in Colorado, look up John (Phantom, Denver) or Finn (Bomber, Silverthrone) or Troy at Summit Canyon Mountaineering, Glenwood Springs for (Spark Dynos DH probably backordered).

    #683394
    Mr_Orange
    76 Posts

    Thanks for all the tips, Powder_Rider. I think you’ve pretty much covered it.

    Going to look for some burton race and snowpros.

    The Garmont megalites actually feel pretty good in terms of flex. Don’t think mods will be needed. It really does feel like a harder soft boot does.

    I emailed spark and they said the dyno will flex similar to the phantom.

    Btw, do you know anything about this process of adding lift to the soles:

    Maybe this is a way to fine tune your boots to fit any sort of binding size. A regular cobbler might even be able to do that.

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