Forums Boots Hardboot setup? Why?
Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 64 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #576736
    moridinbg
    151 Posts

    I have been toying with the idea to go hardboot for next season recently. So can some of the hardbooters (it seems there are quiet a few of you (: ) share their thoughts. Why are you guys riding it and is the switch from softboot justified?
    On many occasions, while traversing, I saw what would be a big advantage for hardboots and with skinning in general.
    What about riding? Quick turns? Leg burn?

    What about hardboots on a solid board for piste carving?

    #654462
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    It is simple:

    Upsides to a well sorted hard boot setup:

    More precise riding performance
    More comfortable
    Better climbing performance
    Better skinning performance
    Lighter weight
    Easier to deal with if backcountry camping or on an expedition
    More reliable

    Downsides:

    Expensive
    Requires specialized knowledge, and custom configuration (mods) to achieve the performance levels noted above

    #654463
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    Please read the following threads to get your questions answered:

    Why use hard boots and plates? One view. http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8706

    Dynafit TLT 5 Mountain, WOW! It is amazing to me the TLT 5 thread more than more than year old and continues to be update. Which says a lot about the TLT 5 as “hard boot” for Splitboarding http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10958

    I ride a stock Scarpa F1 for both splitboarding and on-piste with a cambered Burton Fish.

    I have been riding the 2009 F1 (27.0) stock this year with a Eliminator Custom Tongue (see: http://www.masterfitenterprises.com/eliminator.html). The Eliminator Custom Tongue has help me create a softer forward lean/flex, while improving overall boot fit. I no longer have to crank down the boot straps to get the boot to fit. Now, I ride the boot snug to almost loose, depending on the conditions. The added benefit of the “tongue”, is that I have a larger toe box, so my toes stay warm. Also, I ride with a custom orthotic insoles.

    While most Hard Booters do go on to customize their boots for forward and lateral lean, I have not, except for adding the Elimator Tounge. Please note: I am not taking issue about customizing hard boots. but rather customizing HB boots can be a daunting task, for a new hard booter. Especially when one just paid for a new pair of AT boots. Rather one can try one the boots mentioned above in stock form and if needed, customize to your preference.

    See this thread RE: Scarpa F1 and F3 http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9040&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

    and welcome to the Dark-Side!

    #654464
    nickstayner
    700 Posts

    A splitboard.com classic repeats itself!
    (props to Barrows for a good summary and Powder_Rider for providing the links)

    #654465
    b0ardski
    251 Posts

    what Barrows said and don’t forget durability, plastic boots and bail bindings will preform well for many years of hard use, makes the higher price well worth it IMHO

    #654468
    philip.ak
    679 Posts

    Give it a whirl (I did), but dont sell your soft boots right away (I went back). 🙂

    #654469
    singlewhitecaveman
    242 Posts

    In a nutshell, hardboots kick ass for going up, and are not bad at all for coming down. For me that is worth it, but maybe not for everyone.

    Why are hardboots better for going up? Several reasons, the main one for me being able to take huge strides. Push your back foot as far back as it will go on a soft-boot set-up and soon you’ll see your toe hit the board, which cuts the stride short and forces you to stomp a little bit. Do it again on hardboots and you’ll see you get a way bigger stride on hardboots. Bigger strides with no toe-knock allow you to glide instead of stomp, and helps you flow uphill.

    #654470
    182 Surf de neige
    157 Posts

    ditto on all the above, good work boys… and ….because they kickass… The ride has never been the same… :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

    #654466
    Wasatch_Don
    101 Posts

    As described above, the additional stride length and range of motion is a huge deal if you’re out for long days. I rode soft boots for years but I always felt like I was lifting my ski instead of gliding it. Here in Utah I end up breaking steep trails with a million kickturns and I would never go back to soft boots.

    #654467
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    As lots of folks have commented on the touring benefits of a HB system, I want to emphasize the riding performance.
    Some people still seem to believe that one must accept some compromise in riding performance with HBs. While with a bog stock boot this MAY be the case, if one is willing to put in a little effort into modding the boots, one can achieve a ride at least as good as any soft boot/binding combo. Currently, I feel my HBs actually ride better than softs.
    The Dynafit TLT5 is a bit of a game changer, as it is revolutionary boot in terms of riding performance: the sole is thin, not thicker than a soft boot, and the weight of mine with Intuition liners is the exact same as my Driver Xs. With a few mods, the boots can be made to flex very soft, mine are now flexing a little softer (in forward flex) than my Driver Xs, and about the same in lateral and medial flex.
    The TLT5 has a very close fitting shell, and not everyone may be able to get a really good fit in it-working with a good bootfitter to get it right is really worth the effort. For next season, Dynafit is going to have a boot (I think it is called the One) which may offer equivalent performance, but should be a little easier to fit. This boot is not as much of a Ferrari as the TLT5 is (meaning it offers very high performance, but must be tweaked to perfection to work well) and will be more of a Porsche. The cuff on the One may be stiffer than the TLT5, but I am sure that could be taken care of with mods, and the One will have a slightly more “normal” fit, with higher volume, and will be able to fit more feet. The One is definitely something to look into come fall…

    #654471
    summersgone
    820 Posts

    After spending a week with Keffler, I am convinced hardboots kick ass and I want them. They seem to be awesome for the sidehilling capabilities, the weight savings, the uphill efficiency, the boot life (my softboots are almost done after 70 days of splitting), and the ease of the system. Also, not dealing with pins is huge, bootpacking toe pointing, crampon compatibility for mountaineering, I guess the list just goes on… Maybe on a powder day I’d rock a softboot system, but hardboots seem awesome for pretty much everything, and the TL5 or whatever it is keff didn’t modify much.

    But its expensive as nuts, so I’ll probably hold off for a few years until a more affordable prototype comes out. I don’t know if I feel like dropping about a grand on a hardboot setup right yet. But who knows, next year is another year…

    #654472
    Snurfer
    1448 Posts

    I wanted to wait for the informative posters to provide the technical merits of a HB setup before giving my equally serious, but seemingly smartass reply… Which is; Why meatless, why not carnivore? Or Why not vegan, etc…

    Being a runner I’ve watched an ongoing and raging debate over barefoot, minimalism, zero drop, vs this that and the other… But in the end its what works for the individual. I tried HB’s because I normally ride a 195 and the uphill is very challenging, the voile mntn plate is cheap and I found some boots at gear trade very cheap. I really liked the setup compared to the softboot setup I had at the time. However this year with pathetic snow fall and riding what I consider to be a tiny board (163) I bought the latest sparks and the latest Burton Imperials and really enjoyed that setup as well… (BTW its actually a lot lighter than the F3/Voile combo)

    Have I abandoned the HB setup? Hell no! I actually bought Dynafits for the 195 (praying for a deep 12/13 season) and I’ll probably grab some TLT5’s as well. The point being (budget aside) I don’t feel like I owe any loyalty to either setup, my loyalty is to my riding. I’d say give it a try and see what you think.

    Cheers!

    Shark Snowsurf Chuna
    Voile V-Tail 170 BC
    Voile One Ninety Five
    Spark R&D Arc

    #654461
    keffler
    319 Posts

    After making the switch this year and making my own binding, I’m completely sold on hardboots. This last week in Silverton was further confirmation that I made the right choice and heading in a good direction. I’d say that my riding has actually improved with this setup. We did an 8 hour day to get V5 Corner Coulior and those boots made a huge difference for me. Kicking steps and then using crampons was awesome. Feel like some kind of super hero crushing the track to the top. It was also easy to leave those skinning up in softies behind on the frozen track up. In tour mode, they feel like house slippers! However, it took me a few days to get the fit dialed in, but it seems to me that hardboots are much more tune-able then soft boots. Oh, and it’s such a simpler system. That’s huge for me. I now carry a lot less extra parts as there is just so much less stuff to break. For the stuff I like to ride, this is a no brainer. Big thanks to Barrows for helping me with my setup!

    If I get enough interest, I’m willing to make some bindings for folks. Sorry, not going to send out detailed pics of my setup as I don’t want it getting ripped off (not that I think anyone here would do that, you guys the best!). But for those of you who saw it in person, you know what it’s all about. Send me a PM and I’ll start making a list. But please only those that are really serious as I need a good head count so I can see if I can bring the cost down.

    #654473
    Crille
    3 Posts

    @summersgone wrote:

    crampon compatibility for mountaineering, I guess the list just goes on…

    Crampon works fine with softboots.
    Not getting into the debate hardboots vs softbots, just saying

    #654474
    christoph benells
    717 Posts

    @crille wrote:

    Crampon works fine with softboots.

    no they dont and its a ticking time bomb till your boot flexes out, crampon pops off, tumbles down the hill and leaves you stranded in a precarious spot.

    all mountaineers know a rigid sole is the key to climbing.

    #654475
    summersgone
    820 Posts

    @christoph benells wrote:

    all mountaineers know a rigid sole is the key to climbing.

    +1

    #654476
    karkis
    270 Posts

    @christoph benells wrote:

    @crille wrote:

    Crampon works fine with softboots.

    no they dont and its a ticking time bomb till your boot flexes out, crampon pops off, tumbles down the hill and leaves you stranded in a precarious spot.

    all mountaineers know a rigid sole is the key to climbing.

    dunno if id go so far az say ‘time bomb’, peeps been using strap on cramps for centuries and the tech is sound, barring loser failure…
    but straps do take way longer to cinch on / off and that barrier of effort could make you push your transitions when conditions are just marginal…. speed, safety an all that sh!t…
    rigid soles do climb better, absolutely
    plastic boots are tools not toys. they do everything a softy would but faster stronger longer… and comfort yeh all that, well said already

    never summer snowboards
    phantom splitboard bindings
    dynafit touring
    atomic boots

    #654477
    Powder_Rider
    498 Posts

    Summersgone:

    But its expensive as nuts, so I’ll probably hold off for a few years until a more affordable prototype comes out. I don’t know if I feel like dropping about a grand on a hardboot setup right yet. But who knows, next year is another year..

    One can find a hardboot setup for the same price or even less than a softboot (with bindings) setup. If one looks around for end of season sales, both retail and online, I know I have.

      Scarpa F1 AT Boot for $340
      Burton Race Plates for $90 dollars from Ebay (usually bids for about $120 dollars plus)
      or Voile MTN Plate $55 dollars.

    Also I know of several sports consignment and thrifts stores in Western Colorado, that have killer deals on some AT Boots.

    #654478
    moridinbg
    151 Posts

    Apart from the Voile Mountain Plate and boots, do I need anything else? I have the stuff for factory splitboard bindings.

    #654479
    barrows
    1490 Posts

    @moridinbg wrote:

    Apart from the Voile Mountain Plate and boots, do I need anything else? I have the stuff for factory splitboard bindings.

    the above is the minimum, and is enough to get you started. The best setups use a Dynafit (“tech binding”) compatible boot, and then use a Dynafit, or other (Plum, ATK) “tech” style binding toe piece for tour mode. Using the Tech binding toe piece (with the ride mode binding in the pack) allows for much more efficient touring, and is highly recommended to get the full advantage of a hard boot system.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 64 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.